Posts by Anders Andersen

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

Anders Andersen

@prologos

Are atheists not convinced that the Universe made itself, that life is self-started?

Both theists and atheists must accept that life is self-started. Either because spiritual life self-started with God's existence, or because carbon-based life self-started.

So everyone in this universe must be convinced life self-started, in whatever form.

and they look for, manufacture (not faking) evidence to bolster their conviction, --through scientific research.

No, scientists are looking for explanations that fit the evidence already found.

And then they look for any and all evidence they can find to either confirm or dismiss the proposed explanation.

Scientists being both theists and atheists.

Do you honestly belief that all theist and Christian scientists really want to prove God doesn't exist? Scientists couldn't care less about that, because it's not a subject they investigate.

Or are you claiming all scientists are atheist? In that case you are very mistaken.

WT believers bolster their convictions bymanufactured data too.

Please please please tell me you were drunk when writing this.

I really hope you don't seriously think the scientific processes that brought you all technological advancements and all of human knowledge are the same processes that make the dishonest liars we call Watchtower make up their beliefs out of thin air...

If you do think that, please educate yourself on how the scientific process works.

54

Things JW's and Atheists have in common

by juandefiero in

i was just thinking about something someone said on another thread.

to paraphrase, 'jw beliefs like there being no hellfire, immortal soul, the condition at death...have the ring of truth.'.

i realized, atheists believe these things too!.

Anders Andersen

I have to agree with both Cofty/CodedLogic and SBF.

As far as religions go, I have always seen JW as being evidence-driven, as opposed to those all-vague-and-miraculous-spiritual religions. I took pride in knowing on what my belief was founded, while others just believe because they believe, or because it feels right.

I always knew JW can even back their religion up with scientific evidence (eg proving the flood, disproving evolution etc.)

In that respect, JW beliefs are very materialistic, like many atheist viewpoints.

A discussion between JW and atheist might be fact based (although the JW will not know any relevant facts, nor accept them if they contradict his beliefs).

A discussion between a non-JW theist and an atheist is basically a discussion between two-dimensional Flatlanders and 3D Earthlings: they are each having a discussion in completely different realms. The Christian theist will speak about revelation, personal conversion, knowing Jesus personally etc.etc. in a way a JW will never do.

On the other hand, JW have no idea what science is about (I know that now), and they believe in supernatural Magic SkyDaddy whose existence is completely unproven, and all kind of non-materialistic bullsh#t.

Anyway, I'm glad JW are somewhat (twisted) evidence driven: once I researched the contradicting evidence I was out. In other religions I would still be in based on having Jesus in my heart or something like that.

23

Your Favorite Poetry

by compound complex in

jw
friends

thank you, dear friends, for expressing your thoughts today on the importance of the arts in your lives.

many years ago, a number of threads were devoted to poetry, literature, even english grammar.

rather than resurrect an old thread -- usually with zero results -- i would like to introduce a new post, asking you to add some of your favorite verse.

Anders Andersen

@SBF,

Tried to find the LostLove poem. I can only find one by Robert Graves.

Is this the one you meant?

His eyes are quickened so with grief,
He can watch a grass or leaf
Every instant grow; he can
Clearly through a flint wall see,
Or watch the startled spirit flee
From the throat of a dead man.
...

23

Your Favorite Poetry

by compound complex in

jw
friends

thank you, dear friends, for expressing your thoughts today on the importance of the arts in your lives.

many years ago, a number of threads were devoted to poetry, literature, even english grammar.

rather than resurrect an old thread -- usually with zero results -- i would like to introduce a new post, asking you to add some of your favorite verse.

Anders Andersen

The following poem has always been my favorite.

And being reminded of it now (thinks for that), gives it a whole new meaning, fresh ex-JW.

Whenever I read it, it is accompanied by this song playing in my head.

I just love that melancholic feeling of making a choice and then not knowing what you're missing from the other options you had.

Isn't that appropriate....

The Road Not Taken
BY ROBERT FROST

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

25

Preaching? For what purpose? All JW's need to ask this question.

by park ave boy in

what is the purpose of preaching if not for converts?.

basically, preaching by the jw's is to make converts.

this in itself implies that jehovah's witnesses believe that they alone have the only acceptable way to god and that everyone else is just not worthy.

Anders Andersen

Just saw an illusionist getting a 'victim' drunk on drinking empty glasses.

Two steps he explained:

He had the victim vividly imagine each drink he had in much detail.
He had him say whatever he imagined out loud. This makes people believe their own imaginated experience.

JW do just this: imagine life in paradise, and then tell others about that.

Who cares trying to make converts...failed circus is meant to make JW believe their imaginary future....

And if someone can believe to be drunk in 5 minutes, guess what people can believe given a lifetime of indoctrination starting at birth....

46

The slow trickle has become a steady stream!

by freddo in

jw
friends

in the last few weeks it seems that instead of one or two new posters a week we seem to be getting several every day.

many seem to be long time jw's who are troubled by the path of the organisation.

this is really encouraging to those of us who have been here sometime.. welcome!

Anders Andersen

@Simon,

Do you have some statistics about new accounts?

Maybe a nice graph showing new registrations over time?

:-D

21

How often do you....?

by Lostandfound in

jw
friends

how often do you, ........ no not that, how often do look at this forum ?

and how long does it last,....... no not that again (one track minds) how many looks are you addicted to a day?

keep coming back to see anything new, or do you look at posters who you know from experience have comments that will interest you?.

Anders Andersen

Good morning all :-D

161

Court denies summary judgement for Laurel Jehovah's Witnesses congregation

by OrphanCrow in

court denies summary judgement for laurel jehovah's witnesses congregation.

a motion for summary judgement is denied in a case against the laurel congregation of jehovah's witnesses and some individuals over child abuse reporting issues.a lawyer for the congregation maintained that elders were exempted from reporting requirements under a state law because of clergy privilege and confidentiality.the case resulted from allegations that elders did not report an unlawful sexual relationship between a woman and a 14-year-old boy, both of whom were members of the jehovah's witnesses congregation.. download the court opinion here.

http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?id=235880.

Anders Andersen

What I find very awful about this case is that at the same time the Borg states they will comply with laws making reporting (even suspicions of) abuse mandatory in Australia, they are not complying with these laws in USA, even fighting the mandatory-reporting laws.

Double tongued liars.

Bloody snakes and serpents is what they are :-(

21

How often do you....?

by Lostandfound in

jw
friends

how often do you, ........ no not that, how often do look at this forum ?

and how long does it last,....... no not that again (one track minds) how many looks are you addicted to a day?

keep coming back to see anything new, or do you look at posters who you know from experience have comments that will interest you?.

Anders Andersen

I'm quite fresh awake, and my wife is still in, so I want to know what's happening and subconsciously probably still need more evidence Borg sucks bigtime.

So couple of times a day.

Mostly first thing in the morning and last thing in the evening.

It'll pass.

49

A philosophical question .... what does the word God mean to you personally ?

by Finkelstein in

to myself it means to seek knowledge and understanding of are selves and the world in which we live.. unfortunately history has shown whenever one tries to connect to god and of his knowledge through men who say they themselves are connected to god through spiritual wifi ie.

gb members of the jehovah's witnesses for example, one usually ends up finding a accumulation of only man's acquired knowledge.

over thousands of years of trying to connect to a god(s) for help and answers, mankind has eventually relinquished himself to seeking answers through scientific investigative acquired knowledge of the world in which we live in.

Anders Andersen

The word God carries the same meaning to me as god and gods.

It describes a concept that I have no emotional attachment to or aversion against.

Even the notion true god or false god has lost the meaning it once had to me.

I used to think that the difference between true and false gods is that the true god (God) exists and should be loved, and false gods do not really exist and should be hated.

But...would I (or you) ever worship a god of which you thought it doesn't exist? I would never. And so wouldn't the Israelites.

Whenever they worshipped false gods, they worshipped gods other than JHWH, but they did believe these gods to be real.

If they didn't think they were real, they wouldn't worship them, right?

So to the Israelites the difference between the true god and a false god was that the true god was much stronger, and he is the only one that deserves to be worshipped. But both of them were real to them.

To me this was quite surprising to realise.

Because if they thought the (to me non existing) false gods really existed, how trustworthy are they when it comes to teaching us about any gods or God.

If they had enough evidence to think false gods were real, that speaks volumes about the level of evidence they needed to think a god existed.

They had just as much evidence to believe JHWH existed as they had for all the false gods.

And so do I. To me there is just as much evidence to support JHWH's existence as there is to support all those false gods' existences.